powered by Google  
  Track your favorite teams and players.
Free membership, Register Now
Already a member, Log In
 


Community | Help
 Sports News
Home    Fantasy    NFL  |  MLB  |  NBA  |  NHL  |  College FB  |  College BK  |  Golf  |  Racing  |  Tennis  |  Horses  |  MMA  |  More
CBS College  |  High School  |  Mobile  |  Shop
Community Home | My Profile | My Blog | My Settings | My Account | Member Search | Blog Search | About Community

North Harbour

Blog 2.0: North Harbour

Name: Morgan Maskell | Gender: M | Member Since January 2, 2008
Current Level: Superstar | Email: Private
Favorite
Teams
Blog Home

America vs The World II

Posted on: May 2, 2008 6:53 am
Edited on: May 8, 2008 3:45 am

(Notes: Fans of other sports, stay with me, the first few paragraphs are all about Basketball)

America doesnt like to lurk in a losing environment....have a look

As the birthplace of basketball the United States had a clear advantage in the early decades of international play. The US men were dominant from the first Olympic tournament held in Berlin in 1936, going 5-0 to win the gold. Throughout the next six tournaments, the United States went undefeated, collecting gold and not losing a single match in the games held in London, Helsinki, Melbourne, Rome, Tokyo, and Mexico City.

Basketball was at a height in popularity...Success on the international stage.....the World was at Americas feet.

Then, one fateful day in the 1972 Moscow olympics the USA basketball team set up a final against bitter rivals in well, everything...the Soviet union.

With three seconds left in the gold medal game, American forward Doug Collins sank two free throws to put the Americans up 50-49. But one official had whistled play to stop with one second remaining after hearing the earlier horn and seeing a disturbance near the scorers table. The Soviets argued that they had requested a timeout before Collins' foul shots. The referees ordered the clock reset to three seconds and the game's final seconds replayed. However, the clock was in the process of being reset when the referees put the ball in play. A length of the court Soviet pass missed its mark, the horn sounded and the U.S. again began celebrating.

But the Secretary General of FIBA, ordered the clock to be reset again at 0:03 and the game replayed from that point. This time, the Soviet's Aleksander Belov and the USA's Kevin Joyce and Jim Forbes went up for the pass, and Belov caught the long pass from Ivan Edeshko at the foul line, sending the two Americans sprawling. Belov then drove to the basket for the layup and the winning points as the buzzer sounded. Team USA packed a sad a to this day their silver medals sit in a bank vault in Switzerland.

USA won 1976 then boycotted 1980 because the Soviets, were.....Soviets. Another hollow win in 1984 after the communist countries boycotted. Since Basketball lowered greatly in popularity and Americans started to shift their focus to the NBA. In 1992 the Dream Team won the Olympic basketball tournament with an average margin of victory of 43.8 points and without coach Chuck Daly ever using a timeout. And the world and america was excited with Basketball again.

The 1996 olympics consisted of players of which on Shaquille O'Neal is still playing, half that squad is coaching or GM etc...1998 world champs during the lockout saw the "dirty dozen" capture the bronze.

The USA won the gold medal against France in 200 Sydney olympics in a very close game, 85-75. Though the US went undefeated on its way to the gold medal, for the first time the team began to lose its aura of invincibility. Americas fell out of love with basketball again. In 2002 Team USA finsihed sixth. New Zealand finsihed higer than Team USA...America well and truly lost interest in Basketball.

The vulnerability of the 2004 team was confirmed when Puerto Rico defeated them 92–73 in the very first game of the Olympic tournament in Athens. It was only the third Olympic basketball defeat ever for Team USA and the first for an American team composed of professionals. The 19 point defeat was the most lopsided loss for Team USA in the history of international competition, suggesting that the level of international basketball had caught up with that of the United States.

Now I aint saying it's the main reason, but I see a pattern with Americas success on the world stage and americas love affair with Basketball.

Ice Hockey is a sport that used to big (not that big, but it was big) in America but in modern times have fallen out greatly. Also, USA lost on more regular basis to Canada and european teams that now beat America pretty well.

Baseball just had it's first official "World Classic" where countries competed to be worlds best. America did not even finish in the top four...Japan won. But Steroids is a bigger issue there....and the Steroid issue has seen Baseballs overall popularity plummet.

Now, let me put this out there....In 10 years Germany, Canada and some other European countries want to compete against the likes of America, in a world champs of sorts. For the first 30 years or so, America dominate and win easily. Then it gets tougher, until the world is on level pegging with America...then one day (maybe in 50-60 years time) Canada defeats America....America falls out of love with football.....


 

I put a lot of questions and opinions out there....feel free to comment on anything written.....(even if it's just a sentence....

Reputation: 96
Level: Superstar
Since: Jan 2, 2008
Posted on: May 2, 2008 6:57 am

Americans say they don't care, but you do really

Man, I wrote a lot...But I think Football would lose its lustre if America was defeated regularly in an international arena.



Reputation: 94
Level: All-Star
Since: Sep 24, 2007
Posted on: May 2, 2008 7:34 am

Americans say they don't care, but you do really

And you call me long winded mate!   LOL   j/k!   :)

As the birthplace of basketball the United States had a clear advantage in the early decades of international play.

Keep in mind that Naismith was a Canadian, but invented the game for us here.   :)   

As for the res, all very interesting observations.    My thoughts:

Regarding basketball, I don't think Americans care as much for two reasons:  First off, there will NEVER be another 1992 team and we all just accept that, so there is nothing to really get that excited about again.   Bird, Magic and Jordan were simply awesome.   Opposing players were more concerned with getting their picture taken with them than posting them up.    :)     Secondly, I think we all still realize that IF WE REALLY WANTED TO, we could still DOMINATE any country in basketball, but we just choose not to.  

The reason why the other countries win now had A LOT to do with the guys playing together for long periods of time.   If we took the 15 best American NBA players for each role on the team (3 best point guards, 3 best shooting guards, 3 best power forwards, 3 best centers and 3 best small forwards), dropped their NBA schedule, paid them to play as a TEAM for 4 years straight ONLY under International rules, they would dominate anyone.   

Moreover, we pick the best PLAYERS and not necessarily the best TEAM.    The International game is better suited to better shooters.   We tend to select better athletes.    In many cases a Steve Kerr type of player might be more valuable than a Shawn Marion depending on if there are enough other players that can do the same things Shawn can do (despite Shawn being a far better overall player).   

Take the Miracle on Ice.   The US Team was FAR worse than the Soviets.   Yet they won because they played as a TEAM.    They could play another 10 times and they would probably lose 100-20 in aggregate score.  

Then, one fateful day in the 1972 Moscow olympics the USA basketball team set up a final against bitter rivals in well, everything...the Soviet union.

That was a farce. 

without coach Chuck Daly ever using a timeout.

LOL... that was great.  

Ice Hockey is a sport that used to big (not that big, but it was big) in America but in modern times have fallen out greatly.

Much of that is because Bettman has absolutely no idea of how to run a league. 

Baseball just had it's first official "World Classic" where countries competed to be worlds best. America did not even finish in the top four...Japan won.

Once again, I don't think we care because we know we "could" if we really wanted to... though this is getting closer now.  

Steroids is a bigger issue there....and the Steroid issue has seen Baseballs overall popularity plummet.

Selig is an idiot as well.   :)

Then it gets tougher, until the world is on level pegging with America...then one day (maybe in 50-60 years time) Canada defeats America....America falls out of love with football.....

That is possible, but unlikely.   ;)    Football is so firmly rooted in our culture.   Baseball is too, but there are only 512 football games a year versus 4,860 baseball games.   The rarity keeps fans' interest as well.    Plus as I mentioned before, football is expensive to play compared to baseball.    So places like Cuba, South America, etc would have a harder time competing.  

Nice post NH!

Cheers!



Reputation: 96
Level: Superstar
Since: Jan 2, 2008
Posted on: May 2, 2008 7:48 pm

Americans say they don't care, but you do really

And you call me long winded mate!   LOL   j/k!   :)

That is the first thing I thought of...haha

I think we all still realize that IF WE REALLY WANTED TO, we could still DOMINATE any country in basketball, but we just choose not to.  

Gotta love the American arrogance (that isnt saying you aren't right)

The reason why the other countries win now had A LOT to do with the guys playing together for long periods of time.   If we took the 15 best American NBA players for each role on the team (3 best point guards, 3 best shooting guards, 3 best power forwards, 3 best centers and 3 best small forwards), dropped their NBA schedule, paid them to play as a TEAM for 4 years straight ONLY under International rules, they would dominate anyone.   

Spain and Argentina, two world-class internaitonal outfits don't play together.....Spanish guys play in the spanish league on opposing teams. Argentina starting lineup is all NBA players if Im not mistaken...(I could be wrong, but Im pretty sure there is five or more argentines in the NBA)

But I get what you are saying about continuity of their squads (America seems to have a different group of players every two years. And you have a good point with the different rules....FIBA and NBA...yay for acronyms (sp?)

That is possible, but unlikely.   ;)    Football is so firmly rooted in our culture.   Baseball is too, but there are only 512 football games a year versus 4,860 baseball games.   The rarity keeps fans' interest as well.    Plus as I mentioned before, football is expensive to play compared to baseball.    So places like Cuba, South America, etc would have a harder time competing.  

I get what you are saying, but if America did start to get beaten in 60-90 years time fans would lose interest, America doesnt like to hang around in a losing cultre...which is why everyone wants to get out of Iraq.....am I right?

Thanks for the post Bong, it was a good one...



Reputation: 94
Level: All-Star
Since: Sep 24, 2007
Posted on: May 2, 2008 10:10 pm

Americans say they don't care, but you do really

That is the first thing I thought of...haha

LOL  :)

Gotta love the American arrogance (that isnt saying you aren't right)

:)    The irony is that I think the American arrogance comes from what we have already attempted to do.... that being take a bunch of great atheletes, regardless of how they fit together as a team, forget the fact that the international rules are different, and then just assume that they will win anyways.    The days of "how many behind the back, no look passes can throw against Argentina and still win" are over.  The new mentality should be "how do we put together a great team that will sacrifice personal glory, play great defense, utilize the international rules to our advantage in order to hopefully beat Argentina."

Spain and Argentina, two world-class internaitonal outfits don't play together.....Spanish guys play in the spanish league on opposing teams.

Agreed.   But they are still playing the International Game.   

Argentina starting lineup is all NBA players if Im not mistaken...(I could be wrong, but Im pretty sure there is five or more argentines in the NBA)

Argentina does have 5 guys in the NBA.  

You might enjoy this link:

http://www.nba.com/news/olympic_preview_080425.html

But I get what you are saying about continuity of their squads (America seems to have a different group of players every two years. And you have a good point with the different rules....FIBA and NBA...yay for acronyms (sp?)

:)     In the past, these other countries basically had teams playing together for quite some time.   Then they would add in the one or two NBA players to the team.   So it would be 13 guys as SOLID teammates plus incorporating only two other guys.    Those two other guys were also more familiar with the international game than the NBA from playing it in their childhood versus only several years of NBA ball.   Meanwhile, the NBA guys had basically had egos, taken 15 guys and hoped that they meshed well together, hoped that they could grasp the International and win on mere athleticism alone.   

Another HUGE difference is that the midrange jump shot is a lost art in the NBA.    Good shooting in general is a lost art in the NBA.    The average NBA fan fails to realize that the best shooters don't make the league, but the best ATHLETES do.    If there is a guy that is 6 feet tall and shoots a 10 (on a 1-10 scale) and there is a 6'11 guy that shoots an 8 on the 10 scale, more than likely the 6'11 guy is going to make the league of the two.   In the international game, shooting becomes more important with the closer 3 point line.    It is also why the NCAA tournament can have so many upsets.... the closer 3 point line can make a lesser opponent superior if they get hot from behind the arc that particular night.   

My point (in theory) is that if the NBA took Kobe, LeBron, Carmelo, Kidd, Garnett, Duncan, Howard, Wade, Paul, some great shooters, etc, etc, etc pulled them out of the NBA 4 years ago, had them play only International Rules.. that come this year in the Olympics, they would be blowing people out by 30 points a game.    They have never lacked talent, they have lacked utilizing the international rules and lacked team chemistry IMHO.   

I get what you are saying, but if America did start to get beaten in 60-90 years time fans would lose interest, America doesnt like to hang around in a losing culture

I'm not sure.   It is an interesting philosophical question.   Hopefully you'll get some other responses as well.   :)  

which is why everyone wants to get out of Iraq.....am I right?

If America is honest with itself, I think most people want the war to end because we can't afford it.   Prices here are going up big time.   The dollar is falling.   It is a mess.   I think most Americans don't think we've lost the war.   It depends on what one defines it as.    Bush's big mistake was going to war against "terrorism."    It was a goal that was IMPOSSIBLE to win.   We can never beat terrorism.   In contrast, when he put out the infamous "deck of cards," then he was able to show progress (which was smart on their behalf).   I mean we took over a country roughly the size and population of California in a matter of days.     We could be there 100 years from now and still have people shooting at our troops.    I personally believe we went to the Middle East because of Iran, not Iraq.    After all, despite the media NEVER mentioning it, Iran is currently surrounded by the United States and has been for years now (Iraq is their major border on the West and Afghanistan their major border on the East).    But that is an entirely different topic.   ;)  

Thanks for the post Bong, it was a good one...

NP... likewise!

Cheers!

 



Reputation: 96
Level: Superstar
Since: Jan 2, 2008
Posted on: May 3, 2008 4:52 am

Americans say they don't care, but you do really

I get what you are saying, but if America did start to get beaten in 60-90 years time fans would lose interest, America doesnt like to hang around in a losing cultureI'm not sure.   It is an interesting philosophical question.   Hopefully you'll get some other responses as well.   :)   I hope so.



That was a good link, I like how "Sandri Says" compared the teams to America.

I didnt mean to get in a discussion about the war....I dont want to...too boring, too much big words.... :P

Bong, you actually possess good NBA knowledge...I didnt know cos you never post on the NBA Boards...why not?

Come on, everyone lets hear some responses!!!



Reputation: 94
Level: All-Star
Since: Sep 24, 2007
Posted on: May 3, 2008 7:18 am

Americans say they don't care, but you do really

That was a good link, I like how "Sandri Says" compared the teams to America.

LOL

Bong, you actually possess good NBA knowledge...I didnt know cos you never post on the NBA